OpenWrt Forum Archive

Topic: Improve the Wiki Table of Hardware?

The content of this topic has been archived between 12 Sep 2015 and 6 May 2018. Unfortunately there are posts – most likely complete pages – missing.

Updated some more statuses, USB and some other small stuff.
Away until the weekend -> update when you like

I just updated the text at the top of the ToH. I moved the old ("legacy") text to the bottom for the moment. The new text explains a little about the ToH, then links to two separate pages:

- Instructions for installing OpenWrt
- A guide to Adding devices to the ToH

Comments, please on all three pages:

http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start
http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/installopenwrt
http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/adding_to_toh

I'll remove the temporary text (at the top, in italics) once these pages settle down.

(Last edited by richbhanover on 17 May 2015, 00:37)

richbhanover wrote:

I just updated the text at the top of the ToH. I moved the old ("legacy") text to the bottom for the moment. The new text explains a little about the ToH, then links to two separate pages:

- Instructions for installing OpenWrt
- A guide to Adding devices to the ToH

Comments, please on all three pages:

http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start
http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/installopenwrt
http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/adding_to_toh

I'll remove the temporary text (at the top, in italics) once these pages settle down.

For the installation page, it might be helpful to link to some suggestions on what to do after the initial install. There is the first login page and the configuration page in the wiki.

Might I suggest a page or an addition to one of the aforementioned wiki pages that includes installation of commonly used packages? Off the top of my head, I'd suggest- QoS/SQM, Samba, anything related to mounting USB drives, UPNP, DDNS, and other things that commercial routers tend to do out of the box.

A new first run guide aimed at newbies might be more helpful than the existing first login/configuration pages.

drawz wrote:

You can update the wiki yourself. Just follow the instructions for adding to the table of hardware and then also create a router page for the device. You'll help future users with that device!

I am not really sure I understand how this all works. For example, I'm not even sure if the current ToH page uses the new dataentry/data plugin system. Or the ToH relationship to the page that @zo0ok keeps updating: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/906 … index.html

Let me pose a few questions and make a few guesses:

  • How do you modify the ToH to add a row for a new router? (Is it just copy/pasting a neighbor row from the table, and tweaking its columns?)

  • How do you create a new Router Page for the router? (I know you can edit [[.:linksys:abc]] to [[.:linksys:def]] to create a new page for router "def". Clicking the (now red) link in the ToH leads to a page where you can Create a new page. Is that how it's supposed to work?

  • Do I have to do anything special to put the dataentry on the Router Page? Or do I just copy/paste a template and fill in the values?

  • How does the ToH entry for the router tie to its Router Page? (Is it simply following the URL in the first column of the ToH?)

  • How does the rest of the router's entry row of the ToH get filled in? (Does the data plugin thingie follow the link from the ToH to the Router Page and copy the data back from the dataentry?)

  • A while back, tmo26 tweaked the DIR-505 router page to have some cool examples (https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php … 20#p275620) In that page, I see:

    • the "Hardware Highlights" (I think is the dataentry, which is the real source of the data)

    • the table with Brand/Model/Version/Status/OpenWrt Version/ForumThreads (I think this is the magic of the system, and rows are automatically filtered and columns selected from the list)

    • the table from the original DIR-505 page (I think this was manually copy/pasted)

    • the "Table created with the data plugin" (automagically created by filtering rows/selecting columns?)

    • the "Installation table" (again, automagically created by filtering rows/selecting columns?)

Is this close to correct? (If so, I'll use this info to update the procedure of "Adding a device to the ToH" page.

(Last edited by richbhanover on 17 May 2015, 05:06)

Gonzakpo wrote:

Hello. The TP-Link TL-WA901ND v3 is compatible with OpenWrt although it does not appear on the Wiki TOH. It is officially supported since BB 14.07.

Great! I added it to the ToH (manually, editing the wiki just the normal way, nothing about data entries so far).
I also updated the Device page indicating that it has been supported since 14.07 and with a reference to this thread.

After that, I manually ran my update script that collects information from the 5xToH pages and displays it here:
  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/906 … index.html

Hopefully, in some time, we will get the data-entry-thing working and all will be nicer.

@Gonzakpo: thanks for reporting. You are most welcome to update the wiki yourself. Now I have updated the wiki and I am happy you noticed us about the missing device. Feel free to review and provide more feedback.

@richbhanover: I think your understanding is "close to correct". Lets see where we get with the data entry pages and the new structure... some time.

richbhanover wrote:

I am not really sure I understand how this all works. For example, I'm not even sure if the current ToH page uses the new dataentry/data plugin system.

No, it doesn't and will not in the future. The current ToH is only our datasource.
zo0ok's script gathers the information of all current ToHs and displays it here https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/906 … index.html

How do you modify the [current] ToH to add a row for a new router? (Is it just copy/pasting a neighbor row from the table, and tweaking its columns?)

Yes.

How do you create a new Router Page for the router? (I know you can edit [[.:linksys:abc]] to [[.:linksys:def]] to create a new page for router "def". Clicking the (now red) link in the ToH leads to a page where you can Create a new page. Is that how it's supposed to work?

Yes. Take the template http://wiki.openwrt.org/meta/template_device for the new device page.

Do I have to do anything special to put the dataentry on the Router Page? Or do I just copy/paste a template and fill in the values?

Don't put the dataentry on the device page. Instead, create a new page containing only the dataentry for the device.

How does the ToH entry for the router tie to its Router Page? (Is it simply following the URL in the first column of the ToH?)

The entry of a device in the NEW ToH isn't tied to the devices page, but to the dataentry page.

How does the rest of the router's entry row of the ToH get filled in? (Does the data plugin thingie follow the link from the ToH to the Router Page and copy the data back from the dataentry?)

All information in the dataentry page must be added manually. The data plugin will collect information only from dataentry sections, from nowhere else.


[DIR-505 examples]

The "dataentry for data plugin" (=vertically structured in 2 columns) shown here http://wiki.openwrt.org/meta/playground … highlights is the source for the data.

All horizontally structured tables with coloured header text get their data from the dataentry.
Standard black header text are static tables, no connection to the dataentry.

I hope this answers all your questions. If not, just let me know.

Questions about the "WLAN Hardware" column I'd like to have answered before proceeding:
-> goto https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/906 … index.html
-> click on filter "WLAN HARDWARE"
-> Order by: "Alphabetically"

Questions to this:
  - where does "2x2 MIMO" belong to? (sometimes found here, sometimes in Wifi Std.)
  - put 2x2 MIMO in separate column "MIMO config" like on wikidevi.com? (e.g. https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Netgear_WNDR3700)
  - "onboard" vs. "integrated": which one to prefer?
  - should we mention it at all (if not needed for distinguishing to mini-PCIe)?

Example:
13         Broadcom BCM4318
4         Broadcom BCM4318 (integrated)
8         Broadcom BCM4318 (mini-PCI)
18         Broadcom BCM4318 (onboard)

Can we reduce this to:
35         Broadcom BCM4318
8         Broadcom BCM4318 (mini-PCI)

?

Since this information is needed more by the developer than by the ordinary user: What are the developers opinions on this?

tmo26 wrote:

Can we reduce this to:
35         Broadcom BCM4318
8         Broadcom BCM4318 (mini-PCI)

Not a Developer, but if you don't get any more qualified feedback, I suggest you go with this.

MIMO... I have no real opinion... but I think it would be nice to have it in a separate column in the future. So I guess, for now, keep it in a strict way and I can automatically map it to separate data entry columns in the future.

Updated wired ports, USB and some other small stuff -> zo0ok: update appreciated


To do regarding "Wired Ports":

1) reduce "Eth" entries
  -> search for more detailed spec of Eth, i.e. speed (100M/1Gbit)

2) Many entries with only number of ports, no speed. (492 of 910; 250 thereof in supported)
  -> add speed (100M/Gbit) to ToH entry

Howto for 1+2:
  - search on device page
  - search on wikidevi.com
  - search OEM website

@all: Quite a big task, therefore feel invited to join me smile

tmo26 wrote:

Updated wired ports, USB and some other small stuff -> zo0ok: update appreciated

Done, enjoy!

Did quite some updates in the wired ports column, worth an update of zo0oks-list, in order to see more clearly again.
Currently I'm trying to add the Ethernet speed to the "Wired ports" column. Still some work to do...

That was quick! Thanks! smile

I was lazy the last days due to toh-overdose. Today I did some cleanups and corrections in the Platform column (although it was already quite clean). One more update please!

I added a "tab" for "Pages".
My idea is to start collecting information about the status of the device pages.
At this point the only thing is a list.
In the future I could:
- check if the link is to a device page or external
- check if the link is working or dead
- check what headlines are available, to see how much the article conforms to the (perhaps not decided) template
- searching for particular information or structure in the articles and "rate" or "check" it

Perhaps it can also help in finding device pages that should be merged or splitted.
I think I am also beginning to spot duplicates wink

Page updated: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/906 … index.html

(Last edited by zo0ok on 23 May 2015, 14:08)

Did some more (final hopefully) cleanups in Wlan hardware, Wlan std., VLAN, USB.
I feel like we're coming to and end in regards to cleanups.

zo0ok: One more update please!

Update complete.

zo0ok wrote:

I added a "tab" for "Pages".
My idea is to start collecting information about the status of the device pages.
At this point the only thing is a list.
In the future I could:
...

I'm not sure how the output would look like and how useful this could be.
Go ahead, show an example, I'm curious about new tools. smile

Speaking of tools:
Would it be helpful to count the number of '?' and ' ' (blank) for each column and set a threshhold (e.g. 10% of total devices) for each or for the sum of both, in order to see where some grooming of the data is needed?

Example:

Column   # of '?'   # of 'empty'   sum    Th %    Th
Status   103        129            232    10%     91

---> 232 over threshhold 91 -> should be looked into

tmo26, it would be very easy to present % of '?' and ' '. However, '  ' is not always wrong/missing, is it? And a lot of the ? are for unsupported devices. But if you would like it I can consider to add it.

I know this is not going to be popular... how about having a column (value in the data entry) for "Discontinued & Hard to purchase brand new"?
I know there is a preference to "hard facts", but that devices are not available for purchase is a hard fact. If there is a single shop somewhere that has one, it does not really make a difference.

Well, I did some cleanup based on my "Pages" view... found some duplicates that way.

There are some (supported) devices with links point out from OpenWrt. I dont think that should be ok. We should create an OpenWrt wiki page, and link from there out to external pages, right?

- Several more cleanups done
- Moved some devices from WIP/possible to supported
- Added one WIP device

-> update appreciated (quite a lot recently smile Thanks for providing them!)


As for ? and blank: I'm not sure / need to think about this. For the moment, I can live without and do it manually.

"Discontinued" column: Wikidevi provides this information, see search for "discontinued"
https://wikidevi.com/w/index.php?search … ext=Search

External links: Yes, an own page i/o external link can suit as a data collector.

zo0ok,

you split up NBG460N, NBG550N, NBG550NH on the WIP page.

For the current toh this is the right thing to do, in order to allow for searching these models.
However, this would imply that 3 separate dataentry pages will be created, while the hardware of all 3 is practically identical.
3 separate pages means 3 pages to be maintained... for the same hardware.

In http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/dataentry_t … try_values I proposed "Identical to" and "similar to", in order to have that information available, while having only one dataentry for all 3 to be updated. I don't know if this is the best solution in terms of searchability. Comments welcome!

How do we treat rebranded/renamed devices?
- In the current toh?
- In the toh mk II?

tmo26 wrote:

you split up NBG460N, NBG550N, NBG550NH on the WIP page.

Yes, I did. When I had a look at the "Pages" page I realised that one of the above was duplicated on another page (possible, I think), so I finally split it.

However, you are completely right!
Some devices are identical for practical purposes.

And I dont really know how we are going to solve it in a nice way.
I mean, this is a wiki, and we are not going to build a complex relational model.

The less information we put in the "static" dataentry pages, the less the redundancy problem will become. But on the other hand, the more complex the device pages need to be. Really, one problem now, as I mentioned a while ago is that some very similar devices have different device pages (TP-Link WDR3600 and TP-Link WDR4300, for example), while some very different devices have the same page (TP-Link WDR4900 v1.X and WDR4900 v2.0).

I think we need to take some different "pilot" devices and try out different combinations of data entry and device page to see what works in practice.
I was also quite close today to merge device lines that are extremely similar (where the difference between v1 and v2 is quite insignificant), especially in the "unsupported" and "unknown" area.

The good thing with the data entries is that they will not change much over time, so some redundancy between lines will be not such a big problem.

Perhaps we can, somehow, increase the model from
  - data entry
  - device page
to
  - variant
  - data entry
  - device page

I think one advantage of splitting the three Zyxels up is that searching for one of them gets easier.

But this brings me back to my comment earlier about "Discontinued and not possible to purchase"... we will eventually need to focus our job on those 10-20% of devices that matter, and accept that the others will be more poorly documented.

Finally, if we could map "images" to devices that would be the absolute master to what devices are actually practically indentical and not. And perhaps our documentation should be based on images instead?