Thing is this: 
On the AVM site all the 7170 firmwares are FON, there seems no non fon in existence. 
The reduced model of the 7170 without fon goes by the type 3170.

I'm not convinced.  I'm also not sure that I'm correct. 

The 7170 wiki page (without fon) http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/avm/fritz.box.wlan.7170
does not have pictures. Aan google can't seem to tell the difference between any fritzbox.
I can't find any picture that can convince me that a 7170 without Fon or without WLAN exists.
Or is say that wrong: the reduced version of is named 3170 so it does exist but it has a different type number

So if that is true then the 7170 fon (without WLAN) wiki page should not exist.
And it confuses by saying that 7170 is not supported by OpenWRT and that's incorrect since it is partly supported. I made that mistake a few months ago when i first looked at OpenWRT.  searched for 7170 fount that page and threw the 7170 aside, now i'm more familiar with the wiki it turns out to be partly supported . So thats great!

So this is why i can't let go... I want to be sure so that others don't have to make that mistake.

If someone owns a 7170 Fon without WLAN
then please make a few pictures of all sides. (also the bottom with the type sticker) I'm pretty sure it will say 3170 (not 7170)

There is however another difference:
there is an Annex A and a Annex B version of the 7170 but both have WLAN

(Last edited by frietpan on 4 Sep 2015, 21:08)

Does  https://wikidevi.com/w/index.php?search … &go=Go provide any guidance?

http://www.wehavemorefun.de/fritzbox/FRITZ!Box-Familie is the authority regarding Fritzbox.
The is no such thing as 7170 Fon w/o WLAN.

The pagename of http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/avm/fritz.box.wlan.7170 is certainly wrong.

I just experimented a bit, but couldn't create a working solution, that only shows "Rxxxxx" i/o "https://dev.openwrt.org/changeset/Rxxxxx".

And I replaced R????? with R28395 in
http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/hwdata/3com … rwer100-75
but neither:
https://dev.openwrt.org/changeset/R28395
nor
https://dev.openwrt.org/changeset/r28395
works.

(I got R28395 from http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/3com/3crwer100_75)

So I don't know if we should bother at all.

(Last edited by zo0ok on 5 Sep 2015, 16:51)

Info: Roughly 50% of our devices now have a link to wikidevi.com.
Quite a bit of work, but worth the effort, IMHO.

What's next?-)

There are some broken (red) links from Data Entries / ToH to their Device Pages.
I think that is perhaps #1 priority in my opinion.

There are so many legacy devices that don't run today, that will never run, that can't be bought, and nobody want.
Then there are a few devices that can actually be bought, and that has at least 8M/64M. I think we should focus on improving documentation on those devices. I started working with the Availability column the other day, changing ? to Available for devices that I can easily buy here.

What do sou suggest regarding red broken links? Simply delete the links?

Good idea to focus on available devices, however, this column is not well populated yet, only 28 so far.

http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/views/toh_available_864 (not yet filtered for RAM+Flash)

Is there a way to do greater than/less than in the criteria?  I have tried some expressions, but no luck.

Not in the dynfilters (the white fields in the table header).

However, you can user '>' and others in the filter definition of a datatable, see https://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:data#data_table_output

Going over them, one by one, fixing them
The link to the Raspberry Pi was broken the other day, but there was a Device Page.
I also think there can be devices pages with missing data entrires. How do we spot those?

I got bored after 28. No, but seriously, it is tricky with the versions.

For example, TP-Link WDR1043ND. There is supposed to exist a (possibly unsupported) v3, while v2 is an excellent device.
Are we going to mark both as Available? Or none? Or v3? The Archer C7 v1/v2 is also tricky. And Archer C5.

The best thing is probably to set all the version to Available. That at least will make them prioritized devices for improved documentation, which in turn will help resolve the version mess.

That's what I did with some D-Link devices.
It's nice that D-Link clearly reports if a device is EOL/phased out.

Regarding "Boring": Yes, it is. How can we make the community do this for us?-)

I think making the barrier low enough is one thing, it is already pretty low, but maybe also FUD?
I'm also new to this, but i go and have a look and give it a try. And come back here to ask if something is not clear.

The wiki seemed a bit unclear at first but with some patience i will manage. But does everyone have the patience to figure it out?  What kind of people should edit the wik?  Only die-hard text editors?  For the wiki i expected more of a WYSIWYG editor. Specially since that is more easy for non/less technical people.

I'm all new here so i don't know how all of it came to be.  And i don't know how much work it already was to build this big wiki. But i'm sure that the lower the barrier is to edit a wiki the more people will go and edit.
Not sure HOW to make it easy for everyone. I can imagine that a WYSIWYG can be a headache for many other reasons. 

I'll try to keep the question in mind and think of ways to get more help from 'us'.

I guess asking people to ask questions about the wiki is also an option to gain insight.

Or ask the community in a new topic things like:
What would it take to get more people editing the wiki?
Why don't you edit the wiki?
Are there questions you didn't dare to ask?
What should be improved, and how would you improve it? (And why didn't you?)

Maybe in a more political way, and not all at once.

I'm sure more people want to help. But some might need some help to to start helping?  That also will take effort. 

I recently made my first edits in the wiki Tiny edits, so that I make 1 step at a time, and if I make a mistake it can't be a big one. Easy to remember what I did, even with a sleepy head....

And what about a task list?
Big tasks
Little tasks
Devs like to know X, Y, Z, of device 1 and 2, or devices that have a certain chipset...

An idea box? Even if idea's never get used, it is never bad to have idea's collected. Then you see what is on peoples minds.

I'm thinking out loud, so I may think stupid thoughts, but that’s ok if someone else can turn them into a brilliant idea, and run naked trough the streets shouting EUREKA!!

I proudly report: 509 of 956 devices (53%) now have a wikidevi link.
It was a PITA, because wikidevi is kind of picky regarding spelling.
Zyxel != ZyXEL, meaning that you get different results when searching for Zyxel or ZyXEL devices.

Our OpenWrt ToH doesn't care about case.

Anyway, it's nice to see that there's pretty much further information available at only one site (wikidevi), especially since their wiki pages sometimes refer to the openwrt wiki and forum.

BTW: I added also some links to forum threads.

I simply went through the forum sections, up to 3 months back in time, and looked for threads that had a single router in it's subject, several postings and several hundred views. It's a start, but not complete.

I think it could be a good guidance for new users: If you have questions, go ask the forum (link provided).

50 now: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/views/toh_available_864
Edit: Updated meanwhile, now includes ¿, to reflect the importance of this information.

Where's our community support?

(Last edited by tmo26 on 7 Sep 2015, 22:28)

I dont think the >4 and >32 works as you expected. Just 139 devices match. I think 128<4, the way DokuWiki sees it.

Apart from that, I much appreciate you made a toh_available... I was about to suggest it (but I know I should just learn how to make it myself).

During import/export I set all devices with <=16 MB RAM or <=4 MB Flash to Discontinued. So if you can
1) show available, AND
2) show ¿, where !32=ram and !4=flash, I think you might get what you want.

I am of course tempted to build a batch-update-tool

Well, lets presume they are busy debugging their device, hacking wifi-drivers, helping newbies, improving LuCl, hardening OpenWRT, or implementing new features

(Last edited by zo0ok on 8 Sep 2015, 08:25)

I also think a tool to copy one dataentry to another during the add would speed things up.  I see it being on the first page where one chooses the brand and ads the model, so it would copy all but these fields.

I agree - they're paying attention to all that stuff, and not noticing that they could help move the wiki forward. I am confident that everyone who's in this thread understands the goodness that these changes bring. But we need to let the rest of the community know a) what those changes can do for them, and b) how they can help.

So the question is, how can we let the community know about this? I propose:

On the Forums:

- Create an announcement about the new ToH (similar to the RC1) that touts its benefits, and says that all the cool kids are updating their device pages to incorporate the new datatable capabilities. (We need to make it more obvious what they need to do.)

- Create an article (sticky?) in the General Discussion and also Community Documentation thread that tells about the new ToH structure and points people to the Adding a Device page.

- Remove some of the old sticky topics from those two forums, since they distract from the general discussion. (For example, all the sticky items in the Community documentation forum are > 18 months old, and don't seem particularly relevant to anything people are doing today.)

- Update the "OpenWrt Wiki - Maintenance" sticky topic to say, "Help us maintain the OpenWrt Wiki", then list concrete tasks/steps people can do.

On the Wiki:

- List specific tasks that people can do to take advantage of the new ToH. Tell how to add datatables to the detail page, etc.

- Making sure the wiki pages that let people know exactly what to do, so that they can just follow our instructions to "do the right thing". (I realize that sometimes I get too detailed, and that puts a lot of people off... Someone else can check and bring me up short :-)

- I am still not content with the topnote of the current ToH. The table of variations takes up too much space, meaning that people may not see the "good stuff' unless they scroll.

I realize this is a lot of writing, and I will volunteer for some. Anyone else want to help?

Ah, I see. Just checked the devices up to Accton (not that much ): For some, there's simply no devicepage availabe, for others, there is a devicepage, but the link is broken and needs to be adjusted.
Uhm... http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/alcatel-sbell/rg100a-aa ... *very* basic.

1) Brute force: Manually compare contents of the "toh" namespace with the contents of the "toh:hwdata". Some pageindex- or other plugin magic may help to ease the process.
2) Compare contents of the above mentioned namespaces by some magic swedish tool ;-)

I recognize the reasons behind this idea, since I have tried myself to find some availability information on some devices, and indeed, it's very tricky to nearly impossible to find accurate info on the availability of a certain version.
Wikidevi sometimes provides the date of FCC registration. A device that was registered in 2006 is highly unlikely still available, but you see, the closer you come to the current date, the bigger your uncertainty will get.

We could do polls / surveys, posted on the devicepages: "If you recently (within the last 3 months) purchased one of the following versions of $device, please vote below [some vote / poll plugin magic, see demowiki]"

We could simply start a thread here in the forum, asking the same question.
Or asking:  Can you help out and fill in the missing availability status?

Regarding setting all versions of a device to "Available": I'm hesitating. IMHO it's better to have a real "unknown" i/o a fake "Available". Who will ever correct it?

Ok, if we can get a forum Admin to retire the old sticky Topics, and replace with a fresh new one... that would be nice.

We need a clear priority (what we do, what we want the community to do).
I am still, mentally, waiting to see how the new ToH works out, and not so forward oriented yet. Perhaps time to move on

We have:
a) Forum
b) ToH (Data Entries)
c) Device Pages
d) The wiki itself

I don't know right now, where to proceed.

One thing would be to establish a new Device Page (that makes use of the Data Entry), and work through available/popular devices and make the device pages conform.

Would it be an option to move the 'community documentation' forum to the general section.

I hadn't even noticed there was a documentation forum. I mainly lived in the 'General Discussion'
I'm glad that this topic is in General. It got me involved into doing Wiki stuff. :-)

Maybe we can invite more people in the general discussion to look more often in the 'Community Documentation' forum?

I like richbhanover's idea's

Also might be an idea to work in small groups. Then the newbies can learn from the people who have build all this. Pass the knowledge and principles to the next generation, and teacht the new generation to do the same.

Tell 2 peoeple something that is important and ask them to pass that knowlege to 2 other people etc.
Some stuff will die out, but then there is a little wave of passing the knowledge.

...*heading over to the Community Documentation*

There's obviously something strange in the use of '>'

No problem at all. Just order, you will be served quickly ;-)

1) availability=available (ram/flash doesn't matter)
2) availability=¿ and RAM!=8,16,32 and Flash!=1,2,4

Did I translate you request correctly?

Harrrr! Yes, that's the right spirit!
Go ahead, keep your tools sharp ;-)

Speaking of tools: I don't know if I have asked before: You aren't too deep into php, are you?
Reason for asking: The dokuwiki plugins are written in php, AFAIU. If there is something to be improved regarding the plugins we use, some php (and maybe js) knowledge could help to develop a solution. I'm thinking of the floating / always visible table headers (hmpf... still have to dig deeper for information).

Hello,

if not reported earlier,
it doesnt get parsed properly when using TOH url in BBCODE..

e.g. i tried here https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php … 11#p290811

cheers,
m